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you're going along and you want to build and you say oh I'm just in your life if you have one thing wrong it doesn't work nobody knows how this thing is solved now he goes by Jim he's professor of Material Science and Nano engineering at Rice University in Houston and Jim is regarded as one of the leading voices in the world responding to origins of Life research we don't even know how to make the molecules we are lost on how
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to do this we can't even make the basic building blocks foreign [Music] as we will see he is very emphatic about his rejection of abiogenesis as a feasible process I'm going to address his video and just try to give a full teaching on abiogenesis over 14 different videos in conclusion James is an embarrassment to the scientific community that never seems to learn his lesson foreign [Music] [Music] I find it problematic in that there's an extrapolation from a very small experiment in a laboratory
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researchers have now created life from non-living parts there were many cleans of molecules in the primordial soup I'm boiling up some primordial soup your entire civilization it all begins right here in this little Pond of goo foreign [Music] I've got a series for you coming up here this is in rebuttal to Dave farina's two-part series on abiogenesis where he again had everything wrong every slide he had wrong hey everyone so some of you are aware of my greatest thing that he did though
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is he brought on three so-called experts to talk about origin of life so we can go right after their research and I dissect their research the research of the experts but what Dave Farina didn't notice is that every argument that he had absolutely fell apart so this first series is going to just go after the experts and then show how Dave Farina was wrong on every one of his points but then we'll have a second series after this series
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that will go after every other part of Dave farina's videos where he can't even get the structure of soap right so this is going to be an amazing series again without ad hominem attacks I'm not attacking him I'm not saying anything bad about uh who he is or what his motives are and he keeps trying to be the great scientific communicator but he's unable to do it so I hope you enjoy this series if you like it give us a thumbs up and subscribe
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and you'll see when each new section is coming out foreign [Music] last year I made a video about James tour chemist and creationist who speaks out against origin of Life research he didn't like it much so he decided to make a 14 part series about how dumb I am I never called Dave Farina dumb if he came out looking dumb after my presentation I mean I just presented the data the only thing that I said is he's wrong he's
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wrong he's wrong then he says he really pulled out all the stops creating all of his classical fallacious talking points of Plenty Of bold-faced Lies and deliberate misrepresentations of scientific research peppered in for good measure honestly I was rather shocked at how stupid it was with such material to work with I ended up with quite a lot to say in response and had to split in into two parts first of all I'm not going to partake in the ad hominem
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attacks nor am I going to psychoanalyze Dave Farina and why he does what he does uh Dave believes that is the comments by the researchers that that work in the origin of life I have repeatedly said that workers people who work in the area of origin of Life write many things in their papers that just are not true according to the data in that very paper and this misunderstanding has come because of the projections of those who work in the area of origin of life they
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do one little thing and then they extrapolate it and then they work with the press to ramp it up even more and they project as if they really know it and so the layperson reads this and says Ah you see scientists understand but I don't think it's fair to put the blame on scientists the blame belongs to the press the blame is with the media Outlets not with the scientists I think the blame is not just with the media Outlets the blame is also with
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the scientists who work in the era of origin of life and that's what I hope to show you what Dave then does is he brings on Experts and he believes what they say so we'll go right after his experts Dave claims that the reason I can't understand origin of life is because I am a synthetic organic chemist origin of Life research is an interdisciplinary field that includes not just areas of chemistry James has no experience with but also physics
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astronomy geology information Theory probability statistics and yet other fields thanks for watching guys he can understand it I don't know what his area of expertise is he can understand but I can't because I'm a synthetic chemist because I'm a synthetic chemist I can't understand it so what does Dave Farina do he invites in three experts to come and speak with him interestingly every one of those experts that he brings in is a synthetic
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chemist [Music] oh the irony none of the experts that he brings in commented on any of the things that I specifically said in that series none of them I had that vetted by two PhD Chemists in the end interestingly will show that his experts end up agreeing with me and not with Dave on multiple occasions but they've never noticed it because he's unable to understand the chemistry for example he brings in Bruce Lipschitz if you see Santa Barbara as one
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of his experts he says Bruce Lipschitz is commenting on my video where I talked about protein synthesis being impossible in water that protein synthesis doesn't happen in water interestingly enough Bruce Lipschitz is a friend of mine I have known him for 35 years more than 35 years almost 40 years I've known Bruce Bruce said he never saw my video he had sent Dave his video on some other topic he was not responding to the video that I
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had done but Dave put it in there as if it was from me but Dave calls me a liar I'm not going to say anything about Dave but interestingly enough Bruce didn't even know it was put in there we'll look at that in detail uh he brings in another expert he brings in Steve Benner founder of the foundation for Applied molecular Evolution Steve Benner made zero comments on the series that I had he didn't talk about anything I confronted him on this uh and and
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I pushed him on it I said look you said in the video that you watched all 10 hours of this you didn't respond to anything in the video did you really watch all 10 hours as well well you know it was on but I was doing other things oh it was on but he was doing other things so he watched he turned on one video had it playing but was doing other things when that got done he turned on video number two had it playing but was doing other things
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okay so we'll look at Steve Benner and we'll look at the very work that he cites why do I have to wait this long because Steve Banner talked about work that was done by a researcher in his group uh biondi and I wanted to see the publication I wrote to him for a copy of the publication he wouldn't send it I said where is it published it wasn't published it didn't publish till more than a year after the video that he talked about brings in a
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third expert Lee Cronin who calls me nefarious yet he himself never answered any of the obstacles he loves his primordial suit model he says it's a good model well then ask him how do you go from The small molecules to a living cell and he said well we we we know about stars we know we'll look at those videos he never comments because he has no idea he says it's a good model but he has no idea we'll expose all of this on Lee Crone and then he
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talks a lot about his own work in origin of Life the types of things that Dave loves to read and and pull little quotes out he tells me I quote mine we'll see Dave's quotes when I look right at the data I go right at the data not just what they write and I'll show that Lee cronin's work in origin of life is nonsense it has nothing to do with the origin of Life certainly not Life as We Know It amazingly Lee Cronin knows nothing about organic chemistry
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that's not my opinion that's somebody else says that that I think Lee Cronin himself would even respect I mean an organic chemist so I don't know any organic chemistry Lee you don't know any organic chemistry I wouldn't have used such strong words but you said it yourself I'll teach you today if you had watched my series you might have learned something I'll also address his sighted experts Joshua swamidas and I'll talk about Jack sauztec
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but he uses their data foreign [Applause] I want to thank Dave for bringing in these experts because now I can go right after these experts and show their work their very own work and their own own words and talk about how origin of life from the very researchers themselves not just YouTubers getting it wrong the very researchers themselves look at the data and they see one thing and they write another their data exposes it and they write
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another well he didn't take kindly to it so he decided to make a 14-part series about how dumb I am and he made a 14-part series about how dumb I am Dave is dumb Dave is dumb Dave is dumb every 10 seconds of this link he said those words I haven't even watched this 14 part series but does he kind of say those words are you not dumb he calls me clueless he has no idea what he's talking about Dave says that I talked about how dumb he was no
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way I never talked about how dumb he was I never commented on his intellect I crossed this out because I don't think anybody here is stupid that's not a question of stupidity it's just a lack of knowledge and and I think that there's just a lack of knowledge that that people presume with great confidence they have very high confidence in another way Dave is a victim Dave is a victim Dave Farina is a victim of the nonsense that these
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people are putting out there and that's what we're going to expose today if Dave is so confident about his work why does he throttle the discussion that goes on under his videos so his videos people comment but if they comment and they Point things out that are against what he said he deletes it I block very liberally because I just don't want to deal with it I'm not going to get into a back and forth that lasts a week with
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100 different people simultaneously I'm just not going to deal with it this this channel is MySpace and if I don't if I want to block or if I want to delete spam comments or if I want to do any of that stuff that's my choice and I do that and I don't care what people say about that hello [Music] [Applause] what do you say to that would you be interested in having a one-on-one conversation with them if he was willing to do so oh I would love that I mean he seems like a fine young man
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I'd love to get together with him we'll have a live stream so nobody's going to edit that I will pay to have him fly to Houston I'll buy his ticket to Houston and I'll put him up either at a hotel or if he wants he can stay in my home we have a guest room you can have dinner with me and my wife and my family and and tell us all about himself [Music] let's start looking at the primordial soup this is something where Dave says that this
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the primordial soup model is only taught to 8th graders not in any advanced textbook when one looks at a typical textbook one will see some prehistoric pond and molecules and those molecules coming together and forming a cell and those cells coming together and some slithering creature coming out of this Pond that is fallacious there is no truth in that this is one version of a talking point Jim brings up a lot he hates how in some textbooks you see a primordial
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soup of molecules some lightning and then all of a sudden a cell is there and then maybe a lizard crawling onto land or something like that to call this a complete view of abiogenesis and evolution would be absurd but absolutely no one proposes this this is something that a lot of creationists do they refer to what is very obviously a textbook meant for middle school students and pretend it represents the Pinnacle of scientific thought on the
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matter sixth graders have zero capacity to understand biochemistry so their textbook doesn't have any biochemistry in it a college level textbook will not look like this so this is a dishonest talking point [Music] here's all of them that are mentioning the primordial soup or the hot smelly soup model all of them mention it here's more and this isn't all of them this is just all that I could compile with the help of Casey luskin who is another team Jesus person as Dave Farina
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would call him and therefore want to Discount whatever he says but I'll tell you Dave team Jesus people keep eating your lunch [Music] let's hear how Lee Cronin explains going from small molecules in a pond to a living cell primordial soup model okay so there was kind of some kind of primordial soup billions of years ago on the surface of Earth chemicals swimming around maybe bolts of lightning going off uh and somehow something happened and poof you've got your first sort of very simple
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cell or something uh swimming around in the ocean okay that's that's the My GCSE vague recollection of what might have been explained as how life got here what's um is that view essentially correct or fundamentally wrong what's the big problem that people have why they haven't up till now at least being able to give a sort of naturalistic scientific explanation for for how all those bright bits got together to create lives so that was Justin's
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uh Justin's comment and he was asking that of Lee Cronin who is an origin of Life researcher one of the top well-known ones and here's what Lee said so we're really important so you're not wrong your GCSE chemistry but it's not it's not too bad at all whoa you're not wrong wow could you cut him off a little faster James literally the very next word he says is but to qualify and contextualize this first phrase okay so I cut him off because
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he doesn't say anything he absolutely doesn't start explaining anything but we'll just let him speak you're not wrong your GCSE chemistry it's not it's not too bad at all but the planet Earth wasn't just this magic Melting Pot of magical chemicals it's the same planet now why are you so afraid to let your viewers hear lee speak well he's going to talk for a bit right now if that's okay with you yeah so um the way that that was um that audio
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was cut was just outrageous because what I was trying to do was make a a connection with the interviewer to say yeah basically anyone with basic chemistry you can start to understand the uh consequences of evolution and basically all I was saying is the very base very basic chemistry introduces the concept of molecules and reactions and complexity and with those ideas together and some time you are able to get to Evolution that is what the current
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scientific consensus is saying is what all the the experiments are showing and what James was trying to do was to is to misquote me as to make some kind of reverse psychological connotation so you see he never told us he never told us he says the the that uh this is current scientific consensus you guys got it right on that Lee that's current scientific consensus which I don't go for and you want everybody to start following you like you're
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the Pied Piper I'm going to expose this for what it is you talk about scientific consensus Galileo should have followed scientific consensus if it were if it were your decision right no sometimes things have to be said and that's what I'm doing I don't care what the scientific consensus is you didn't explain he gave you the chance to explain you didn't do it on briarly's program he gave you the chance to explain yourself here you didn't do it here
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well maybe I cut you off too quickly let's give you another chance maybe in another video you might have done this you're not wrong your GCSE chemistry it's not it's not too bad at all but the planet Earth wasn't just this magic Melting Pot of magical chemicals it's the same planet now but it's got life on it and the problem we have with looking for life on Earth right now the origin of life is there's already populated by uh our
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current biology yes so sales emerged and created an ecosystem and there's DNA and RNA and bacteria all over the planet and they have terraformed the planet from bacterial mats in the ocean to human beings burning forests building airplanes Runway case so it's very difficult to go back and ask where did life come from when life is polluting so that's the first point but the second point I would say that actually there is nothing magical about the emergence
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of life it's really simple and what we've got to try and do and I really like again coming back to the prize and the idea of where does information come from um universes without life are universes without information okay and I think Perry and I really really agree on that point but I'll let him comment on that in a moment so what we're trying to do is we're trying to produce a system a chemical system that produces his own context now I
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don't like that word and your listeners are probably like what do you mean by that and it's a bit like what happens is the chemistry is random okay until a chance event and that's not a lucky event that means an improbable event on a probability distribution like if I play cards I might get a royal flush but I'd have to calculate how long I have to play randomly yeah once I've got that royal flush that Royal Flush doesn't mean to anyone unless
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I'm playing cards yeah but suddenly if that Royal Flush itself created the player to recognize Royal Flush you have a feedback loop so actually when you then remove the need for magic random it's any random okay any random event gets trapped in a bubble in a rock and that then allows to another random event to be slightly less random because of what's in that rock because you're basically you're taking a coin and you've waited it so you get slightly more
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heads and tails and then that coin is able to make other coins that's slightly more heads and tails before you know it you're only flicking heads so what you can do is you can do a model and show how many times do I need that to happen for I always go from heads and tails evens to always getting heads and that type of discussion is how we're creating experiments to create life okay you're flipping coins you got World flushes tell me the chemistry
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you're a chemist tell us the chemistry how does this happen no Royal flushes just bring me through the chemistry here you think people shouldn't get frustrated about your mumbo jumbo nonsense this is characteristic of origin of Life folks it's not just Lee Cronin he's one of many you try to pin him down and he doesn't say it well let's see let's give him another chance I make salad dressing a lot in my lap and in fact salad dressing is probably
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the most important thing for the origin of life that is oil in water okay what happens when you shake oil and water you get bubbles formed spontaneously some molecules can dissolve in those bubbles in different ways and each bubble has a different set of molecules in them and you can fingerprint that using a device similar to what you'd make maybe test your blood to look at them okay so if every droplet is different suddenly you have individuals
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if individuals are now interacting in those droplets or bashing around in that salad dressing they can compete with each other they can cooperate together and they can start to record stuff but we're still talking at this point about inorganic chemistry correct so so and I suppose that the thing I'm trying to get my head around is is it feels like there's a big difference between a kind of a chemical which has no sort of teleology that it just
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is what it is and and a system which kind of has this trajectory so that is to start replicating and so that's a really important Point you're making so for me theology is what teleology is a word I only learned a few months ago but actually I now know what it means so I can retort you so I would say like if I design a fork yes to pick up something I know it's a fork but if I observe a fork arising I look at the pathway assembly of
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the thought I'd say well actually it's below my threshold it could have emerged but an agency built that fork when I can discern a number of features so what I mean is at you've chemistry is at the border between 80 logical if that's a word okay and teleological system okay and when the chemistry is able to create um it basically is able to affect itself in the future that then becomes teleological right it crosses over from inorganic to organic
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exactly and that is and that's really the exciting Discovery we're trying to make Perry wants to pay for no I mean that in a sense not not just my my lab but anyone's lab computer he wants to see and I'm putting this precisely so he can challenge and Denison challenge the a self-generating system that's theologically generating objects and what you're saying is like oh boy DNA would have convinced it evolves but how did that happen sure and I
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would say Evolution occurs firstly in bubbles right over the bubble so you imagine like a massive system disorganized chemistry persisting as that persists over time it has to compress those features and stop errors creeping in and what happens over time is polymers get formed so what is a polymer polymer is when two ping-pong balls if you like are able to come together and rather bounce off one another they connect and then it's two ping-pong balls
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connected together so you have double the information before and so on and you get the kind of daisy chaining it's bubbles it's all about bubbles really bubbles you get polymers how do you do the chemistry to get the polymers this is so exacting we're going to go through this we're going to show the polymers that you've made are garbage garbage they're not proteins they're not what you want it doesn't give you what you want this is what I'm talking
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about it's just this is so painful have you had enough you've probably had enough of Lee Cronin but how about just give me one proposal you don't have to tell us how it happened that's not what I'm asking for is how might it have happened that you substantiate the primordial suit model how might it have happened just sketch out the big picture here because a lot of people assume okay maybe they learned this in GCSE biology or something but you
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know okay so there was some kind of primordial soup billions of years ago on the surface of Earth chemicals swimming around maybe bolts of lightning going off and somehow something happened and poof you've got your first very simple cell or something uh swimming around in the ocean is that view essentially correct or fundamentally wrong so you're not wrong your GCSE chemistry it's not it's not too bad all you actually you said is this you
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essentially correct or fundamentally wrong unquote and Lee said you're not wrong your GCSE chemistry it's not it's not too bad at all and I'm like what where is the evidence for this and and I'm like this is the type of extrapolation that I'm talking about from one of the Premier people in the world in origin of life and I'm saying okay you got evidence for me help me give me the evidence for that Lee give me the evidence I'd love
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to have it it's clear that chemicals on Earth that the before life were simpler because there was no Machinery to make chemicals um the debate that you I think you're digging into a debate the origin of life people have that I was giving Justin a GCSE not a not a degree in chemistry and that um I don't care whether the atmosphere is oxidizing or reducing we simply don't know we can look at the fossil record geological weapons on
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and so forth and ask those questions however for meteorites that we have from the solar system from where the birth of the solar system is we know what type of chemicals are present and basically when you look at uh say Murchison or other meteorites carbonaceous chondrites we find very simple organic molecules with some nitrogen oxygen some carbon some hydrogen maybe a bit of sulfur you know the elements that we'd expect we find on Earth very simple
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versions so all I was saying was that now I think that Jim you've got to be careful here because you are trying to build a narrative and building narratives and what I'm not I'm not interested in I didn't that his GCSE chemistry was fine GCSE high school chemistry was their simple chemistry on Earth was there was there some energy on Earth all those things to the best of our knowledge yes there was energy um there was a lot of things going on there's
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a great deal of evidence for large the large heavy uh the late heavy bombardment and all that stuff but if you want concrete evidence you can get meteors that are 4.7 billion years old which have simple chemistry on them and I think the thing that we are you're maybe creating a straw man here because I think we basically agree that in the past chemistry looks to have been simpler we have seen no evidence of complex chemistry emerging before
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life on Earth and complex I would say large molecules that you can hold in your hand maybe you can manufacture in your lab and there is good evidence for that there's plenty of peer-reviewed Publications which talk about that that information now it doesn't doesn't suggest it doesn't there is not evidence from what how what the lifetime is of Erasure and the and the half-life of that complexity however we are beginning through very radioactive
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carbon dating um heavy atom atom carbon dating and looking at the entropy of material the disorder the material to kind of piece together if there was something complex there but that is a very very hard problem so I disagree with you that Justin's chemistry is just fine um I don't know what the precise nature of that is and maybe what you're getting at is some original life people says look it was reducing then it was oxidizing then it was
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phosphorus and then there was sugar and there was RNA no we have I would agree with you there is no evidence about what sequence of small molecules were there but was there super simple molecules there on Earth at the beginning yes and we can trace it back to the Big Bang where there we have proof that there was a big bang and then we have uh um stars forming and those stars explode and when those stars explode they produce elements in their Elemental
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form and when they create on a planet they then gain complexity okay yes feel free to respond there Jim okay so so Lee that's not what you said and that's not what you put forward I agree we have small molecules oxidizing no I did not say anything else that's exactly what I said Justin said was there a Prebiotic soup and I said yes the evidence says so no and Justin said then cells came forth life came forth from that all right so that is
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indeed you were a little bit looser let's get more specific but what I'm saying is you are the authority here when you tell him he asked you specifically he says the road it's a primordial soup and life came for and your very simple cells came forth from this we have no evidence how this thing happened we don't know how it happened but the evidence on Earth says in the fossil record that life appeared very very quickly okay after the
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late heavy bombardment so that is evidence in the fossil record that is not disputable I think we both agree planet Earth formed rocks simple chemistry no life right we don't know all the details of that but then within a few hundred million years there's evidence in the fossil record that life formed simple cellular life those two facts are not as far as I know disputed by those those are not contestable how we got from the point A to
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point B, we're clueless absolutely but I didn't say I did not say we knew so we're agreeing so you and I agree Lee that how we got from the simple molecules to life it happened but we don't know how exactly foreign [Applause] [Music] if you're enjoying this series give us a thumbs up and click the Subscribe button and that way you'll hear when we're coming out with new videos there are no salaried employees in this organization all the accounting all the legal work that's
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