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0:02
(thoughtful music)
0:09
- Hello everyone. Today, I'm sitting here together with Charlotte Wang and we will be talking a little bit about her experience from studying at university and then going into professional life around sustainability. Charlotte, thank you very much for coming in. - Thanks. - And agreeing to this interview. So, you studied at UNSW. What were your major subjects? Why did you study what you did? - So I studied a Bachelor of Environmental Engineering
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at UNSW, and I graduated in, and I finished in 2017.
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At, as well I was studying, I was really interested in sustainability, and I was also really interested in what engineers can do in terms of problem solving and solving some of those, you know, big challenges out there.
1:06
When I was in high school I did a lot of volunteering work, and I also studied humanities subjects, so when I came to university
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I wanted to study engineering to learn about those sort of problem solving skills that come with being an engineer. But I think I always had a social lens or community lens to all that I was learning so the issues and solutions that I was learning about in environmental engineerings. - Okay, so you actually combine different skills there. And where did your interest in sustainability come from?
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- I think, actually, in high school because I'd studies so may humanities subjects I learnt a lot about those sort of big challenges that we face and in legal studies, which I studied in year 11 and 12, we actually did a lot round global environmental protection and world order. So my sort of interest in, you know, all those in the UN development goals in, you know, the different environmental summits that were held over time and then ultimately the concept of sustainability
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but they were really ignited actually, when I was studying humanities subjects in high school. - And then you went on to do a bachelor in environmental engineering. - Yeah, so it was a very big pivot at the time, 'cause I hadn't studied any science subjects in the last years of high school. But to me it really fitted quite well because I was learning about all these challenges you know around poverty and environmental degradation, and I really wanted to do a degree where I could be, you know,
3:00
I could learn how we could address those problems in systematic way. - And while you were studying you became already involved with some sustainability initiatives. I think you became involved with E-Waste Recycling. Can you tell us a bit more about that and how you came to do that? - Yeah, so it was actually be chance, I guess that I ended up spending so much of my university degree working on a computer reuse project. So I had this interest in sustainability and in my first year of university
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I discovered a group of students in a student society and UNSW working on an e-waste reuse project and I, I just joined out of interest. But I think, you know, it was such a good opportunity this sort of group of organized students. It was such a good opportunity to actually try and do something real, you know, something really practical. I really, I guess, I felt the challenge was really interesting. And so I ended up spending the rest of my university
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life, so the five years I spent at university, working on trying to get computers at UNSW into a more sustainable end of life solution. - Yes, yeah that's really good. I can see that because when you study it's, most of it is theoretical, but then you had something where you really put something into practice and it made a difference obviously so those computers they didn't go to landfill, they got a new life basically. - Yeah, it's interesting because,
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I mean, we as students we started out from nothing. We didn't know about, you know, what happened to computers, what options were out there. - Yes. - You know, what solutions were out there and what was already happening. And it was a big sort of learning experience for us. And I think the university was actually doing a relatively good job. They had a, they had a scheme in place for computers to be recycled. - Yes. - And some of those computers were actually reused
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but I think what we wanted was more, which isn't surprising. A lot of us were learning about sustainability and the waste hierarchy and we just thought, you know, these computers instead of being recycled they should actually be reused. And even better than being reused they shouldn't be, you know discarded at all. - Yes, that's right, yeah. - So we, and we also sort of noticed that there were so many people in our local community who didn't have access to computers.
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And it was really, it was affecting sort of their opportunities to participate in society. Whether it was through education or not being able to write their resume on a home computer and not having access to the internet. So we wanted to do more, and I think that's what the reuse program that we created for UNSW did. It like, it was what we thought was a more sustainable solution by being able to take those computers, get students to refurbish them
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and then donate them directly to the local community. - So there's many elements to this really. It's not just a circular economy element where you actually make reuse of a resource that's already there, and save new materials in the way, but you also, you know, there's a social component as well where you actually help people who are in need of maybe equipment that's not so expensive or that they can't get otherwise. So, yeah, this is a very interesting project.
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- Yeah, I think we thought it was, this is what we were taught sustainability was about. - Exactly. - And we just wanted to sort of try and make it happen. - Yes, yeah, no, it's a fantastic practical example of how that could look like in the real world. Now you have entered the professional life. You're working, you're employed. Tell us a bit what you're doing now and what you like about it. - Yeah, I'm a consultant. I've been in consulting since I came out of uni.
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I find it really interesting because we, you know, we work on so many different projects. It's very different from working, you know, in one specific company, so being on the sustainability team of a specific company. So we get to work with many different companies, governments, whether it's state or local government. I also work in a small to medium-sized company that's quite young so we, we have, I guess, more opportunities to challenge ourselves. We have a flatter hierarchy.
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So it's been really interesting just in that respect as well. - Okay, that's good. So you're involved with many sustainability projects or questions, as you say, other companies and government. Can you give us a few examples of how that looks like? - Yeah, so the company I work for Edge Environment it's really focused on sustainability. So we basically only work strictly in the sustainability realm, as opposed to, you know, environmental issues or even social sustainability issues.
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So that mean that we use those sustainability tools like lifecycle assessment,
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like, we work in areas like sustainability strategy, sustainable procurement. - Oh, right. - So an example of a project that I've actually spent nearly a year working on is an environmental product declaration, which is a sort of standardized ISO defined environmental label that's based on lifecycle assessment. And I've been working on an environmental product declaration for a concrete company so when it's published in a few weeks time it'll be the first environmental
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product declaration for concrete. These declarations they're actually used in the sustainability rating schemes of the infrastructure and property sector. So it will be really interesting to see how the sector responds to this sort of new information
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where, you know, this environmental, the environmental information about this product will now be available for procurement managers, for construction companies to assess the sustainability credentials of this product. - Yes, okay, I can see that this becomes very important for companies because it sort of becomes the standard, right, when those companies then go out and tender for grants then they can show that they have this declaration, they can show the credentials of their product
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and maybe the government, whoever is commissioning the contract can compare different ones over time. So, yes, I can see how important that will become for the industry. - Yeah, and some companies and some government construction or projects have already started including a line in their tenders asking if people have, if tenderers have environmental product declarations. And so, I guess, in consulting, you know, some of the work we do is just, you know,
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like calculations, relatively standard work, say doing a lifecycle assessment of a building to compare it to how it would have been if initiatives weren't implemented. But other work can sometimes be very transformative like this project that I'm talking about, where, you know, you hope that the benefits of the work that you're doing can be, you know, quite transformative over time. - Yes, that's right and beyond the single project that you're working on. - Yes. - But actually, yes, as you say,
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over time applicable to all the projects that are coming. Yeah, and this is how I think how we, how sustainability can be implemented in practice. That it becomes the norm that you have to provide this information and that contracts are given on the merit of the environmental and maybe social benefits. - I think it's a really exciting time to be in sustainability as a field because it's quite new in terms of having sustainability professionals consulting businesses
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that specialize in sustainability and for companies to actually have dedicated sustainability teams or managers. So I feel like when we're working we're still, we're still, you know, defining what our profession is and it's interesting to be able to contribute to what's best practice in sustainability. What methods are out there?
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Yeah, that's interesting. - Yes, sometimes it's a bit difficult to define when you say you work in sustainability what exactly does that mean. - Yeah. - But yeah, this is a good example. And can you see the sector growing? So is the company you're working in growing and can you see others are also increasingly working in that field? - I think so. It's still a bit difficult. I mean, when I graduated, as I said, I went straight into consulting but I was actually working in a different consultancy,
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a waste and recycling consultancy. - Okay, - So it's more focused on environmental issues rather than sustainability as a whole. And I think, while there are businesses out there
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who are actually playing a big role in growing the sustainability field, they still remain those sort of first movers, so the businesses that I now work with in my role as a sustainability consultant are usually those top businesses in their field so those top property companies or top infrastructure companies or the government itself, so there's still some time to go, I think, before those second tier and third tier companies start actually looking at sustainability
13:48
as something integral to their business. But I can definitely see it growing over time and I hope it grows over time. - Yes, we hope so. So let's take maybe a wider perspective.
14:02
How do you think we are doing generally in terms of, you know, implementing a circular economy concept or moving towards sustainability and I mean if you have any experience from Australia or maybe even globally. How do you see us moving in the right direction or are we on track? Do we still have to do more? Probably. - Yeah, well I think we can always do more,
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but there's been some really interesting sort of things happening, especially in circular economy in recent years, so a lot of Australian states have now come out with the circular economy policy. - That's right, yes. - And because of recent sort of movements in the international market, in terms of waste. You know, Australian government at federal level has also come out with a sort of comprehensive waste strategy as well.
15:02
But then I guess more, speaking more broadly, in terms of, you know, how we're doing nationally and internationally, I think I always see it probably from a different angle than I would have seen it in high school and probably most other people see it. I guess in high school, and probably most people in the community, when they talk about sustainability issues they're talking about what others can do, so what the government should do or what businesses should do
15:35
or what the general population should do. But now that I'm working in sustainability I always see it in terms what we as sustainability professionals or people working in this space what we can do, and I think from that perspective you know, it's really interesting to see so many people entering this sustainability profession from really different disciplines, you know, people who've studied science, management, business, like, the people that I work with on a day to day basis at work, you know,
16:08
whether it's clients or people in my own business, you know we all come from such diverse fields but we all now trying to work towards, you know, these sustainability goals. And I think, when I meet the people working in sustainability I think like there's so many of us that are trying to find the solutions, trying to better communicate what sustainability is and from that respect, I think we're on track.
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- Yeah, that's very interesting that you say this, and encouraging as well because ultimately yes, everyone plays a role and so, yeah, we can't always say, others should do that. Everyone has to contribute. But if you have a fear of peers, of colleagues who are like-minded and, you know, think in the same direction I think it makes it also easier to become engaged and stay engaged and be encouraged. - Yeah, I think we definitely need politicians to be onboard.
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We definitely need the community to onboard and businesses as well. But once we have that, we also need solutions and they also need to, you know, address both the problem and also fit in with sort of what that sort of solution, or the problem definition. - Yeah. - And so it's up to sustainability professionals to sort of understand the problem, understand all the dimensions of the problem, you know, come up with solutions that people can accept, that are practical
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and that will actually be implemented. - Yeah. And then it's a collective effort to implement those solutions. - Yeah, I think like, one thing that I've, that's really, that I've really learnt from reuse and also now that I'm working, is that, you know, things take time to happen. I mean, just in terms of the shear organization, you know, sometimes, you know,
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this reuse program it took us, it took us five years to implement it fully, or four to really get it going, and obviously it's probably faster in the real world when you're working because, you know, you're not starting from the bottom where you don't know any of the players et cetera. But, you know, just in terms of understanding the problem, consulting with all the stakeholders, you know, persuading people, and you'll always have people that need to be persuaded. - Yeah.
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- It takes time, but I guess, we just need to do, we just need to keep learning as a sustainability profession in terms of how we become smarter, how we better communicate, you know, how we better persuade people. - Yeah, but this example also shows that it's worth after all, so yes it takes time to go through it, persuade people, people. - Yeah. - But in the end the outcome is really positive and it's worth keeping at it. - Yeah, it's worth it. - So well done.
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- I think the reuse program, you know, it still, so it's an Arc program now. It's still, Arc's the student union at UNSW, so this program it's still attracts a lot of students every year. - That's good, yeah. - Who wanna volunteer. You know, we're getting computers from different faculties or departments or just students or staff at UNSW and computers are going out into the community as donations, and I think
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it's really good to see something that, you know, is sustainable in terms of, both environmentally and socially but also it's got enough interest from students. - From a business perspective. - Yes, so that it's still funded. - Yes. - It's funded as a student development program as long as students are interested in it, and as long as it builds them up then it'll keep running. - This is good, yes. So coming back to university and talking about students.
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What can you recommend to students of this course? So you have now the experience of studying and becoming involved in a practical project and then, you know, working as a sustainability consultant. If students here are serious about sustainability, if they really want to do something about it and become engaged. What could you recommend to them? What subjects should they study? And what else could they do? Where should they be looking for work, perhaps?
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So, I think that might be interesting for them to hear. - I think one of the biggest, one of the most important skillsets to have if you wanna work in sustainability is actually being able to persuade people. So being able to negotiate well, - [Tommy] Okay. - [Charlotte] To talk persuasively - [Tommy] All right. - And to engage with people persuasively, because at the end of the day, you know, sustainability it sort of sits on top of a lot of existing systems,
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processes, organizational structures and you need to be able to to talk to people who disagree with you. - Yes. - To get them onboard, you know, to build consensus around an issue and that's something that, you know,
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that probably isn't taught so much in university degrees. - Yes. - Which is something that you can try and gain experience in outside of the classroom. There's no better way to learn how to communicate than to, you know, be active outside of the classroom. - And just do it, basically. - Yeah, just do it because, I mean, learning all those technical skills and knowledge is definitely important because you have to know what you're doing. - [Tommy] You have to have that background.
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- [Charlotte] Yes, you have to know, you have to have that knowledge so you can talk persuasively. - [Tommy] Yes. - But I think outside of that, you would, you know, sustainability at the end of the day is just about doing it. I mean, we can theorize and do all those things, which is very important, but at the end of the day, you know, sometimes it's just as basic as walking into a room. - Yes. - Confronting or engaging with people who disagree with you and trying to get them onboard
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to what you're proposing. - [Tommy] And to, so apart from the negotiating skills are there other skills and knowledge that's useful in this context? - I think looking back, and this is something I'm also sort of trying to catch up on now that I'm working, is learning more about economics. Learning how, you know, how that whole sort of sphere of knowledge works, and being able to then communicate you know, to people in business or maybe in politics or people in the community
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who have this very, who have a focus on economics or who see solutions, issues from an economic lens. Being able to communicate better to those people and to find and craft solutions that address you know, economic concerns. - So in a sense trying also to talk the language of business or people involved with economic decisions yeah, because it's obviously important. - Yeah, I mean it's such a important lens that's applied when it comes to government
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and also obviously to business in this country. And, I think, if there was one thing that I would have added to me university degree, even though we did study and we did have an environmental economics course. - Yeah, a little bit of it, yes. - I guess, I think more of that and going out and learning more about that would be useful. - Oh, okay, I see. Thank you very much. - Thanks.
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